Recently, I was given a subscription to Relevant magazine for Christmas by my cousin who is also in the ministry. Seeing that the tagline for Relevant is “God.Life.Progressive Culture.“, I am fully prepared to read theological and social banter that do not follow my views. I mean, in this tagline these guys are pretty much saying that they are not geared toward a conservative like me. However, the front cover features a close-up of Rob Bell and a feature article on the emergent pastor on pp. 64-69. The things Bell says in that interview are what I want to specifically talk about. They go way beyond the “progressive” views of the magazine. Bell is preaching a different religion. That is correct, I am saying that what Rob Bell is teaching his congregation of 10,000 at Mars Hill Church in Grand Rapids Michigan, as well as millions who hear him across the country via podcasts, and through his extremely popular video productions (like the NOOMA series) is a totally different religion – not Christianity. First let me point out that Bell has been embraced by evangelicalism and wears the moniker proudly (albeit with a bit of a smirk). The article reports that the Chicago-Sun Times has called Bell “The Next Billy Graham”; and Relevant claims, he has become one of the most influential figures in evangelical Christianity.
The splash page quote from Bell is, “I have never set out to be shocking or controversial. That’s a horrid goal- and, I believe, a very unredemptive goal. My interest has always been the Truth.” (emphasis added). Sounds great right? Let’s just take a few quotes from the article and see what “the Truth” is according Rob Bell.
- That is that all people will eventually be conformed to perfect relationship with God. When asked about his involvement in environmentalism Rob says the following, “It was great. There were all sorts of really interesting things that came out of that. We understand that every person is a priest, and so a church is where all of these people are essentially having their inner priest evoked out of them.” So, the job of the church is not to help people recognize their default condition of being separated from God, rather all people are priests by default and the church is the place to discover that.
- In other words, God is all and all is God. “I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.” is how the Beatles put it. In the follow-up question of how his faith leads to his being environmentally conscious, Bell emasculates Scripture to make his point that, as the eighties song says, “we are the world”. Bell’s answer: “It’s always been rooted in the very nature of God. The central Hebrew prayer, Deuteronomy 6, says, ‘Hear O Israel the Lord your God, the Lord is One,’ so we live with awareness that all of reality is one. We are connected with all things everywhere…” This is clearly far from the Christian (and biblical) view of God, the universe, and man.
- When asked about his The Gods Aren’t Angry tour Bell discussed the focal points of the tour being, “…how humans invented religion to make themselves feel better, …and how those gods evolved over time, …I’m thrilled with how the content came together. For me everything is about content.” I agree with Bell that everything is about content, but listen to his content! If man created “the gods” rather than the real God who is there creating man, what makes Bell’s rhetoric any different than that of Hitchens, Dawkins, and the myriad of other popular atheists of our time?
4. A Negation of Christ’s Redemptive Work:
- Bell says, “The world is desperately in need of people who will break themselves open and pour themselves out for the reconciliation of all things- that’s what the world needs.” This is more popularly known as the “social gospel”. He takes Christ’s work of “making all things new” to an entirely twisted level. True to the aforementioned atheistic views, Bell has placed the onus on man to “reconcile all things”. And obviously this isn’t even reconciling man to God since Bell does not believe that man is separated from God in the first place. So in essence, what he is saying is that the world does not need to be restored from the Fall by accepting Christ as God, Lord, and Redeemer…not according to Bell, all the world needs now is love sweet love.
Needless to say, more could be said about Rob Bell and his views. And much has. You can hear an interview with Doug Pagitt (another emergent pastor) and Todd Friel of Way of the Master Radio. In this interview, you will hear the same views from Bell expressed for all the world to hear from Pagitt. You can also check out the works of Brian McLaren and Donald Miller to name a few, at your local Lifeway or Family Christian Store to see how these very unchristian views have infiltrated Christianity.
The emergent movement is more than a church style. It is a new religion being taught by people who are too cool for the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. For more information into this topic check out these folks:
John MacArthur YouTube video.
PBS report video.
Apprising Ministries (quoting Walter Martin’s discussion of the Emergent Movement in the Southern Baptist Church) blog.
Brian McLaren’s own words about the atonement.
Terry,
FYI. I looked for your email addy but didn’t see it:
Rob Bell Is Not A Christian
By: Ken Silva on February 22, 2008
at 1:40 am
Amen, good job. I would like to see more quotes from Bell, because he has a great spin machine that states ‘He never said that/meant that” and that He affirms the traditional views of God/Jesus/Trinity blah blah blah….
By: Pastorboy on February 22, 2008
at 2:45 pm
Terry,
This is the first time I have been to your site. Been reading Brother Ken’s site for awhile, and he linked to here. Good Job on pointing out Rob Bell’s other gospel, and frankly, the SBC too, for helping to promote his and other of these emergent teachers. I am on the Ex. board in Missouri for the SBC, and many here are trying to fight this stuff tooth and nail. Don’t even get me started on LIfeway. Many of us have been trying to convey to LIfeway what a false mess this stuff is, and what damage it is causing for them to promote a lot of it, but so far have had little success. We’ll keep trying. Thanks again for this informative write-up.
By: kim on February 22, 2008
at 4:44 pm
Rob Bell is not only “Not a Christian,” I think that his deceptive ways should be called what they really are: The New “Age” Spirituality Occult. This is marketed poison folks, and the effects of Bell’s “influence” are snatching away the next generation into what may be the biggest apostasy yet. Rob Bell seems to be more into Gnostic “secret knowledge” than God’s Holy Word. Has anyone read Colossians? Remember, the Lord is building His church, not the Emergent crowd. Shame on the SBC and Lifeway for trying to build #’s and make a buck. Shame on Zondervan for publishing Bell’s book, Sex God. Repent from false teaching. Learn and discern. Thank you Terry for this post. Bless You! Psalms 1
By: just a mom on February 22, 2008
at 5:33 pm
It is possible for a believer to backslide doctrinally as well as morally. The eternal standing of anyone before God is speculative, just as their are people who we might consider saved who will turn out to be lost.
Bell’s present teachings are significantly unorthodox, but no one can identify with any divine knowledge a person’s salvation and it actually diverts attention from the issue and projects people’s judgment to Bell’s soul. Doctrinal teachings should be scrutinized against Scripture without the distraction of speculation or even declaration of a person’s salvation.
BTW – your assessment of Bell’s teachings are accurate.
By: Henry (Rick) Frueh on February 22, 2008
at 5:41 pm
Sorry, Terry, you’re 100% off on your interpretation of Bell, his teachings, and his faith.
Bell’s Christianity is FAR less suspect than that of your first commenter, whose “ministry” (to put it very loosely) is more in the likes of Torquemada than the Reformers…
By: Chris L on February 22, 2008
at 5:55 pm
Also, FYI – Walter Martin died more than a decade before the “Emerging Church” movement even came into being…
By: Chris L on February 22, 2008
at 5:57 pm
Henry: Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I believe they deserve more discussion, and I agree with you on the subjective nature of pronouncing anyone “saved”. My thoughts on Bell (and title for the post) was meant to address doctrine. However, I guess the following series of questions would be pertinent:
1. What constitutes Christian belief?
2. Can one be a Christian without adhering to the fundamental principles of Christian belief?
3. Can someone go to Heaven without being a Christian?
Again, the condition of man is one of being “condemned already”. Bell is leading people away from the only means of reconciling that default setting.
By: Terry H. on February 22, 2008
at 6:55 pm
1. A basic belief in Jesus’ life (how he taught we should live), his death (what he did for us) and resurrection (bringing us life now and forever). Bell’s church teaches this, as well. Here is their statement of narrative theology. Also, prior to suggesting he (or his church) is not Christian (or making wild accusations about Universalism, Monism, Naturalism, etc.), perhaps you should contact them.
2. In general, no – but if you are speaking to systematic theology, then yes. A number of the items you have interpreted as “unorthodox” have been done so in the guise of Calvinist/Reformed doctrine, which you would be correct in stating is not what Bell/Mars Hill teaches. For instance, per your point #4, Bell does not teach against Substitutionary Penal Atonement, per se, but rather teaches a form of Christus Victor (the earliest teaching about Jesus’ redemptive work), which says that not only was Jesus’ death about personal salvation (the penal substitutionary view), but that it is also about God’s victory over Satan (Christus Victor). Additionally, Bell/Mars Hill teaches a balance of the individual and social gospel, that what Jesus taught was just as important as who he was. Too often the traditional/fundamentalist teaching has been all about the latter and lip service to the former ONLY as it pertains to the latter.
3. Not according to scripture, which Mars Hill/Bell affirms on a number of occasions. However, your question pretty much nails that you’ve missed a key point of the gospel, treating it like a fire insurance policy, rather than a way to live now and forever.
By: Chris L on February 22, 2008
at 7:27 pm
Then apparently you’ve not listened to him all that closely, and you’ve not done the proper work of Matthew 18 in contacting him directly before making such accusations…
By: Chris L on February 22, 2008
at 7:29 pm
1. The Scriptures
2. Yes. (The man in Corinth living in sin)
3. No.
Charles Finney was dramatically saved and used mightily throughout the Northeast. However, in his later years he morphed from a preacher to a theologian and taught some crazy things. He did not believe those things originall (sinless perfection, etc.) but later drifted.
A true believer is capable of almost any backsliding with its accompanying deceptive behavior and/or teachings. Only God knows, and the most we can say is that it is an extremely dangerous situation to stary from the teaching of the atonement and begin teaching false doctrine.
It doesn’t mean that you are definitely unsaved, but at the very least it means you are deceived and spreading deception. At the very most, it can mean you have counted the blood of the covenant wherewith you were sanctified, an unholy thing. And for a staunch Arminian such as myself, that does have eternal implications.
But I cannot attach with any authority a person’s name to that verse, but God can.
By: Henry (Rick) Frueh on February 22, 2008
at 7:30 pm
“you’ve not done the proper work of Matthew 18 in contacting him directly before making such accusations…”
Does not apply. Terry is not a member of Bell’s local church. And as Dr. Martin also pointed out, men like Rob Bell are teaching in the public arena and as such open to public critique.
By: Ken Silva on February 22, 2008
at 9:54 pm
Ken – I agree. How do you contact John Wesley, for instance? The Matt. 18 admonition centers around our own personal spheres and probably is not focused on doctrinal issues but social interaction issues.
By: Henry (Rick) Frueh on February 22, 2008
at 10:02 pm
You linked to the wrong Mars Hill church!
By: Lori on February 23, 2008
at 3:37 am
Sorry for the error in the link guys. It will be Monday before I can correct it. An honest error on my part, but it doesn’t affect my assessment of Mr. Bell’s theology since it was taken from his statements in the article and not from the church to which the incorrect link leads. Please also understand that my purpose in posting this blog was not personal slander; I do not know Rob Bell personally. I simply mean to demarkate the Christian view of God, man, and salvation and I observe Rob Bell’s teaching in those areas to be contrary to the teachings of Paul, John, and Jesus Himself. I have not attacked Bell’s treatment of others, his personal character, or anything of the sort. I simply think he is promulgating a religion that is not Christianity under a pseudonymn. Truth is important and I hope our discussions here can remain in the arena of ideas. You have every right to critique my brand of theology as well. Feel free to read any of my other posts and call my views into question, but the Bible must be the standard.
By: Terry H. on February 23, 2008
at 4:15 am
Chris why don’t you offer some proof from Rob himself of instead of simply attacking his critiques. Rob has plenty of material from which you should be able to construct a solid defense if in fact this statements about Rob’s heresies are false. I mean Rob’s a communicator surely he can clearly communicate the gospel? Can he not use great plainness of speech and if not then we need to ask ourselves and him why not?
By: John on February 25, 2008
at 2:46 pm
I don’t know much about Rob Bell, but I do know he is not perfect. That does not mean he is not a Christian.
Having said that, it is not for anyone to judge whether or not he is a “Christian”, only God can make that judgement. The bible has very strong words about people that pass judgement and spread idle gossip.
It seems to me that people are spending a lot of time gossiping and making judgements about Rob, when there are many more fruitful things to be done in this life to honour and obey God.
Matthew 12:36 says:
“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
By: Ron on March 3, 2008
at 7:08 pm
“It seems to me that people are spending a lot of time gossiping and making judgements about Rob, when there are many more fruitful things to be done in this life to honour and obey God.”
preach on. what a waste of my last fifteen minutes.
By: PM on March 3, 2008
at 8:49 pm
Ron, I agree that slander would be inappropriate. As far as Rob being not perfect; neither am I. However, that is neither the question at hand nor the point of my post.
The exception I take is with Rob’s calling the brand of doctrine he espouses “Christian”. This is in fact a healthy and biblical type of judgment. The apostle Paul spent a large portion of his letters to the New Testament church speaking about this type of analysis. Not gossip, but discernment; just like the kind you are utilizing in assessing my comments.
You certainly, have the right to judge my statements (as you have). Please allow me the same freedom to judge the statements Rob makes without being vilified. Also, please see my above comment in that I am not attacking Rob as a person, simply “attacking” what I view as soundly unbiblical doctrines about God, man, and salvation.
I will not make further redundant statements about my intent in that I feel it has been sufficiently addressed and that it distracts from the topic and does not address the questions at hand. It would be interesting to see some of the folks who do not agree with my post to actually address the material I have offered from the Bell interview in Relevant magazine. I think that would be a more fruitful conversation. I will gladly respond to such statements or queries in the future.
By: Terry Hollifield on March 3, 2008
at 9:39 pm
If it is required that a person believe the orthodox teachings of the church, ie: the Trinity, Virgin Birth, etc. Then why is it that we consider people “saved” when they accept Christ after someone has shared with them the plan of salvation? If one must FIRST have proper theology in order to go to Heaven, then is the SBC promoting heresy on their website when they offer this prayer for salvation?
“Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and I do not deserve eternal life. But, I believe You died and rose from the grave to purchase a place in Heaven for me. Jesus, come into my life, take control of my life, forgive my sins and save me. I am now placing my trust in You alone for my salvation and I accept your free gift of eternal life.”
No where in that prayer does it say, ‘Lord Jesus, I know you were born of a virgin and that you are the second Person in the Trinity, and…and…etc.”
Don’t misunderstand, theology is important…I am a product of good Baptist education, BUT if proper theology is required for salvation then you are right…Rob Bell may not be a Christian…HOWEVER neither is the person who comes to church, hears the basic plan of salvation and asks Jesus into their heart.
By: GAH on March 4, 2008
at 7:24 pm
‘Blessed are those with correct doctrine who can recite the magic prayer.’
‘Blessed are those who spread hate instead of unity and seek to pul the splinter out of their neighbours eye, rather than seeing the plank in theirs.’
‘Blessed are those who woud rather be right than love their neighbours.’
Well done guys, keep it up, you are a credit to the faith.
By: Paul on March 9, 2008
at 8:27 pm
As I look at the people complaining (like Paul), or just adding to the malaise of these comments, it reminds me that the enemy will do anything to distract or diffuse a kernel of truth. Is it not far more imporant to discuss, discern, and investigate the issue that has been raised in the blog – whether we (or a significant portion of the Christian populace) are accepting a distortion of the Gospel as truth? Or it it more important that we bicker about how Hollifield approached Bell or the techicalities of mainline doctrine?
I am new to this blog and frankly, I think it raises an essential consideration for every believer ot Jesus (whatever label you choose) – but I see little discussion of that issue, and instead more argument about how the issue was approached or petty jabs or people who just post things that raise the level of antagonism without really adding anything substantial.
If you can read a blog like this and respond with sarcasm, or avoid the issue raised by the blog itself, you’re probably on the wrong forum. Join the “joke a day” mailing list or just read news that doesn’t require a lot of personal investigation and response. It will be far more helpful to you and to the people who will take this issue seriously, regardless of which side of the fence they land on.
Much love in all things,
Tony Bowick
By: Tony on March 11, 2008
at 7:55 pm
I think you have missed the point. Rob Bell is using a subversive appraoch to bring tainted, skeptical, tired people to jesus. You totally missed the point with his “man made the gods” thing. He did not say Man Made GOD, He said man created “religion”. Rob Bell’s teachings have turned me back to jesus. pointed me to a life that expects jesus to be present, and has helped shape the gospel in me. I encourage you to not be so quick to call people “not” christians.
By: Mike on March 21, 2008
at 6:35 am
[...] him with the emergent movement of church leaders and thinkers. There’s no shortage of both critical and celebratory commentary on Bell around the blogosphere and elsewhere. I haven’t [...]
By: Rob Bell: We Have It Upside Down « Reconciliation Blog on April 1, 2008
at 4:12 am
You seriously have no idea what Rob Bell teaches, apparently. It’s silly…someone new comes along that can actually connect with the current generation and teaches things in a slightly different way and you slander him as if you had a clue.
You don’t.
And you should repent for the things you have said about him.
By: Jason on June 24, 2008
at 2:51 pm
So did you ever think to maybe try and e-mail Rob Bell and see what he or some representative of his might have to say. You do realize often times interviews in magazines are edited down for spacing, and can make some quotes seem a bit off from their original intent. Also in trying to be concise in answers often times teachers can over condense ideas to that not every aspect is understood. It might to well to see if there is a way to have some of these quotes expanded on, by someone who might have a bit more insight.
By: Neight83 on September 18, 2008
at 5:25 am
Neight83:
Rob Bell’s quotes within the article are consistent with other, more well-formed statements he has made in books such as Velvet Elvis. I wish the comments were out of context and inconsistent with his views, but unfortunately they are a fair sampling of the usual from Bell. Also, Rob has expressly said that he does not respond to critiques such as mine. In interviews in which he is pressed on the controversial nature of his theology by more historically orthodox theologians, Bell dismisses the critiques and basically averts the dialog.
By: Terry Hollifield on September 18, 2008
at 9:32 pm
I’m a little upset to see that this is how we decide to spend our time. Attacking other Christians. Love you all.
By: nic on December 8, 2008
at 9:38 am
Hold on Nic…is that an attack on my post? What you have labeled an “attack” by me is nothing of the sort. It is the assessment of another person’s ideas and seeking to categorize them; which is exactly what you have done to my thoughts (which you categorized as an attack). I simply categorized Bell’s ideas as non-Christian. Disagreement does not = attack. In fact, that is true tolerance: Discussing ideas that matter deeply and are deeply disagreed upon in search of the truth without attacking one another. All people are created equal but all ideas are not.
By: Terry Hollifield on December 9, 2008
at 10:25 pm
i think you’ve succeeded…i’m confused.
By: nic on December 10, 2008
at 11:19 am
Sorry about that Nic, that was not my intention. Which part of my reply did you find confusing?
By: Terry Hollifield on December 11, 2008
at 5:22 pm
The fundamental problem with Christians is they think they monopolize the way to God through Jesus. They don’t. In fact, they may not even know the way. Belief can only be seen through action. The way Jesus speaks of to the father is the way of love, patience, gentleness, acceptance, grace, humbleness, selflessness, generousity, etc. I know few christians who display these characteristics, thus they do not know the way, the truth and the life. I know more Muslims that know the way than Christians. God simply does not care if you think Jesus is God. What he cares about is how you treat his children.
Christianity is irrelevant. Jesus matters. No where have I read that Jesus was particularly fond of religion… what makes anyone think he is fond of it now that we have rubber stamped his name over something we made up?
By: Reid Bradley on February 15, 2009
at 5:16 am
By the way, I think rob bell’s feelings would be hurt that you called him “not a christian”. Who are you to judge? It is more insight to your own cold heart than anything else.
By: Reid Bradley on February 15, 2009
at 5:18 am
Thanks for commenting Reid. Let me address your last comment first. Your question of “who are you to judge” is a common one. But I must in response then ask you, “Who are YOU to judge my judging?” The point is that judgments are inevitable anytime we open our mouth to utter an opinion. Jesus didn’t merely say “don’t judge”; He continued to elaborate that He was saying we need to be careful because we are going to be judged as well.
As far as to whether or not Bell is a Christian, my article laid out beliefs that would categorize Bell as outside the tenants of historical Christianity. I made my assessment based on the teachings of Christ and His disciples.
Jesus never shied away from being critical of those He saw teaching false doctrine, most of the New Testament is written by Paul, Peter, and Jude to warn of false teachers. Ideas have consequences. Thus ideas about ultimate matters (e.g. theology) have ultimate consequences. That truth makes these matters worth fleshing out regardless of ones feelings about them. Coldheartedness is not my motivator- merely and objective assessment. Sadly in our day, when a contradictory view is expressed it is taken as a personal attack by default.
Check out your first comment for my reply to it.
By: Terry Hollifield on February 16, 2009
at 7:51 pm
Reid- in response to your first comment:
You said:
“The fundamental problem with Christians is they think they monopolize the way to God through Jesus. They don’t. In fact, they may not even know the way. Belief can only be seen through action. The way Jesus speaks of to the father is the way of love, patience, gentleness, acceptance, grace, humbleness, selflessness, generousity, etc.”
First- all religions think the monopolize the way to God. Even by your own assertion, you think you are claiming to understand the way to God and that the Christians have it wrong. So let’s not play games an say that an exclusive claim is out of bounds. As I said in my first response to your comments, exclusive claims are unavoidable. If we affirm anything, we are by default denying all things that disagree with what we affirm- else we would have to affirm contradictory ideas at the same time and this would be nonsense.
Secondly- Jesus never said that the way to the father was “love, patience, gentleness, acceptance, grace, humbleness, selflessness, generousity, etc.” You only quote half the verse about “the way, the truth, and the life”. Jesus was very clear that HE HIMSELF was the way. Not merely some sort of living a virtuous life in hopes of salvation.
Thirdly- God in fact does care whether you believe Jesus is God.
1 John 2:22-24:
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
This means that regardless of their virtuosity, Muslims are separated from the Father because of their denial that Jesus is the Christ. They deny the deity of Christ therefore they have no fellowship with the father.
God really does care about these things. it is not preference but reality that matters.
Lastly- I think your point about the lack of these virtues in the Christian life are well stated in that those who claim to be followers of Christ often show their true colors by not living very Christlike lives at all. This is a mare of the face of Christianity and has turned many away from the faith. This should not however reflect on Christ Himself Who indeed lived the perfect life and laid it down that we may be forgiven.
Precisely however, because Christ alone was the God/man, He alone can provide salvation and relationship with the Father. We must never miss that.
By: Terry Hollifield on February 16, 2009
at 8:09 pm
It really saddens me to see christains fighting over this matter. I believe it is right to warn us of anything that does not add up to scripture. If we were not warned of such things we might not even realize or are hearts may not be pricked by such things. Yes I understand that the Holy Spirit blesses us with discernment but what if you have quenched the Spirit and can’t hear Him speak. I thank God for sending His son Jesus to take away the sin of this world and I believe it is on accepting that truth , and I believe that it is the right thing to do by telling us or I should say to make us aware of statements that we could fall into by satans tactics. I don’t know the heart of any man but I do want to be warned if God has put it on a man’s heart to speak … I believe it says in the last days that even christains would fall away , (am I interpeting it wrong) from wrong doctrine. ? I am standing on the verse” believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved” I believe what He has done for me that I could not do for myself. ” I needed a savoir and I know He died for me and I accept that . Now I have to trust that He will guide me through to eternity some day. I will fall and I will fail Him and I will sin , but thanks be to God , it has been taken care of … I am the chief of all sinners and can relate to Paul but I thank God that He only see’s me through Jesus’s eyes or I would be up the creek without a paddle. If my salvation could be taken from me then I believe allot of people would be going to hell for things they miss interpeted. Maybe I can’t understand allot of things but what I do understand is that I am a child of Gods and He will take care of me .If I don’t stand on that , I have nothing. So I thank God for men that will stand up for truth and help us with a warning of MAYBE false doctrine. Instead of trying to prove who’s right and who’s wrong. We should be thanking fellow christains for looking out for satans attacks on the children of God ,,, I am not saying that Rob Bell is one of those but I am thankful that I was warned and I will let the Lord show me truth… and he uses people to show us . Thank you and I will pray about this situation and ask for discernment to know what the truth is in this area……..
By: Linda on March 6, 2009
at 7:53 pm
Terry,
This is not an “attack” but a question… I have friends in our church who agree with your few of the Bell/Mars Hill Church teaching, but i have noticed they have gathered there information from google and clinked on the first site listed.
I must admit i did the same thing to find your blog….
My question to them and to yourself, is; have you listened to The Velvet Elvis, have listened to Bells msg’s, and have you been to the church yourself? as one of my friends have not listened, they just disagree…
Please… I’m not on a witch hunt for those who do not agree with Bell/Mars, i myself feel that the church in many ways due to our humaness can become unbalanced.
Let me explain – pentecostal churches such as mine can get unbalanced at times in our ministry. (Ministry being the focus)
Denominational Churches can be unbalanced in teaching.
(Teaching being the focus, and no holy spirit)
I believe the church that Jesus would want to marry would be balanced and not bottom heavy…
i believe that Bell/Mars may be human like me, so they to find an unbalanced focus… it’s like they have gone back to teaching/intellectual, and even swing back towards a traditional church.
I’m curious do you see miracles in your church, through the laying on of hands? Does the holy spirit consume your worship?
Are you balanced?
“Where sin abounds, grace abounds much more,” (Romans 5:20) – BUT not a sloppy grace!
i look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks
By: ME on July 10, 2009
at 11:01 pm
Thanks “ME”-
Let me start by saying that I am always a bit skeptical when folks don’t let me know who they are…
But yes, I have read Bell’s some of material (but certainly not all), and listened to him sermons as well as comments he has made in interviews and the like. That’s why I used a specific source (the article) when I did the post. I could have listed many other things, but thought this one source got to the point and provided an accessible read for those who might want to check my sources.
As far as the questions about my church; I’ll be glad to discuss them, but would like a little bit of clarification. Could you define for me what type of miracles you are referring to? And When you ask if I am balanced; in what way do you mean?
By: Terry Hollifield on July 13, 2009
at 5:56 pm
I am finding the blog interesting and the response comments even more so.
Terry you sound like a very intelligent man with a passion for finding and understanding God’s truth. But I feel the same could be said for that of Mr. Bell. As I have read your responses I have notice that you often reference your point of view bases on scripture or the Bible. Yet is this not true of all professing christians? Is it not honest to say that it is your interpretation or view of the scripture that brings you to your beliefs of “true christianity”. And that your view was shaped, sculpted and discipled by teachers and mentors that had developed their own interpretation based on their own thoughts and that of mentors. So who interpretation is indisputable and 100% accurate? In fact, many detractors of Christianity point to irregularities in the paralleling stories of the gospels as proof that events did not actually occur as Christian doctrine claims it did. Is this not also what could be seen as the gospels writer’s interpretation of Jesus. All having their own take on events based on their experiences. Then further complicated by the canonization process that led to what we now read as the Bible. What gospels were included were decided on by men based on what they judged to be the best representation of Jesus.
Your claim is that “Rob Bell is not a christian”. As I am sure you know the term “Christian” came from the church in Antioch and first referenced in Acts. Jesus never used the term Christian and never directly said there was a specific process to conversion. To equate your definition of Christian with that of what Jesus would call a disciple would be foolish leap of thought. I do not think that you are fool though. Your use of apologetics is interesting and push christians to think through their faith, which I believe is your goal. Yet I wonder if you have an explanation for the notion that Jesus’ own disciple would not have met your criteria for christians until after the ascension, which as we all know would be anywhere from 3-5 years after they first began to “follow” Jesus. Which by definition is a christian, “a follower of Christ or the Christian faith.”
Without a doubt you are correct that the only way to the Father is through Christ.
They only place where I feel have a gaping flaw within your argument is in your approach. I will not call it an attack or malicious. Yet in essence you have publicly proclaimed that Mr. Bell should be expelled from the church. By claiming he is not a christian this is essentially what has happened. The Bible, in which you claim is your authority on your point of view, is very specific about how one is to go about dealing with such matters. Namely so the that you should confront your Brother in Christ in confidence beyond the eyes of other believers before bringing your grievance before others. You seem to have chosen to ignore this in order to display your point of view.
I appreciate your passion for the Word and your pursuit of truth. I also appreciate the fact that you want to help keep believers from stumbling on untruths. But may I encourage to take the posture of Jesus and let your teaching, compassion and grace lead the way. Those who are impostures will fall away in the light of Him.
I believe Mr. Bell would be ok with the idea that your do not find him a Christian. In fact, he would agree. . . I believe he would rather be seen as a disciple. I believe Rob Bell is opening the hearts of people toward God and whether you agree with his method or not is your opinion. Even Peter and Paul hated each other ministries at times. I am glad I ran across your blog. Peace be the journey.
By: Travis on November 4, 2009
at 12:21 am